1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:21,280 Okay. 2 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,340 Hello, everyone. 3 00:00:23,340 --> 00:00:24,840 We are back in session. 4 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,520 It is 2023 and we have two more sessions to go. 5 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:38,080 I am excited to be doing today's session on off-chain or physical objects or claims that 6 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:45,480 are linked to NFTs with the very, very well-known G-Money, who is not just one of the great 7 00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:53,920 collectors of the space and he is a business builder in the space and has done a lot of 8 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:55,640 interesting physical objects. 9 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,920 So, first of all, welcome to the course, sir. 10 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:00,680 Well, thank you for having me. 11 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:05,040 It's a pleasure to be on and it's definitely an honor. 12 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:11,960 So what we're going to do today is kind of a mix of a presentation and a discussion. 13 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:20,160 I'd like to go, VT, through a few background slides to make sure everyone gets up there. 14 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:26,040 Make sure everyone is on the same page in terms of the concepts. 15 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:33,080 Then we'll work through some examples and then, since we have the founder of a, actually, 16 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:42,240 one of our example slides, dig into detail like why it was done this way, what's the 17 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,440 opportunity or what does this look like over time. 18 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,360 And so we'll go that way. 19 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:54,560 And at any point, G-Money, if I'm off-base on something or I didn't say something that 20 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,600 you think should be out of just jumping even during the slides. 21 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,600 Okay, great. 22 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:01,600 Okay. 23 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,680 Did I have control of the slides? 24 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:11,920 I don't seem to have control of the slides. 25 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:13,880 Huh. 26 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,720 I do. 27 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:26,760 I don't seem to be able to switch the slide. 28 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:35,640 I think you might have control of the slides, I think. 29 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:37,640 30 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:38,640 31 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:41,640 32 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:43,640 33 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:44,640 34 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:45,640 All right. 35 00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:57,320 So the session of the course we titled it Off-chain Objects. 36 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,200 And then I thought to myself, is that right? 37 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,360 I mean, it's sort of, it is, of course, right. 38 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:07,160 But I was also playing around with a couple of other words, physical objects, right? 39 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:14,880 Because there's some things that are off-chain but digital, like, you know, are we right, PFS? 40 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:16,720 That is true for a lot of NFTs. 41 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,800 But I think that's something different than what we're discussing here. 42 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:25,320 And then I was wondering even if the word objects was correct. 43 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:30,320 And I think it's not, or it's partially correct, but it's not fully comprehensive. 44 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:36,000 I think the right word is claims because we could be representing things that are not 45 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,240 an object, but for example, could be an experience. 46 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:48,240 If you have an NFT that represents a ticket to a concert or a night in a hotel room, it's 47 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:49,240 not an object. 48 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,320 You know, you haven't gotten the concert hall. 49 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,360 But it is a claim in the physical world. 50 00:03:54,360 --> 00:04:02,040 And I think for the purpose of this session, that's my mental framework that we're talking 51 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:07,400 about, you know, the other 11 sessions of the course we're talking about natively digital 52 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,400 assets all the way through. 53 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:14,560 This is the session where we're talking about physical matters. 54 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:20,920 And physical in this case claims, which I think this is the right model. 55 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,920 Now what type of things could they represent? 56 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:33,720 And this is in no way an exhaustive list, exhaustive list is everything in the world. 57 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,880 So I'm not going to start writing down every single thing in the world. 58 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,800 But evident crypto a long time. 59 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:48,560 And this idea of representing physical objects with crypto tokens predates NFTs. 60 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,920 We've been talking about this for many, many years. 61 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,720 A lot of people tried to do it with fungible tokens, they turned it with colored coins. 62 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:01,480 And the areas that people typically start with the ones that I've heard over and over 63 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:08,040 and over again, are no particular order real estate, clothing, precious stones or gold or 64 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:09,040 what have you. 65 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,040 It's where people start, right? 66 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:15,600 Because I think these are things that might have sufficient value that people think about 67 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:22,720 them and they're easy enough to make the mental leap. 68 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:27,160 Maybe someday are washing machine will be represented by NFT, but it's a harder mental 69 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,120 leap to see how that works, right? 70 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:37,600 So and then the claim may not just be ownership, right? 71 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,400 Could be ownership. 72 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:46,040 Could be that if you own this NFT, you own this physical object, do that. 73 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,000 It could be rental. 74 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:55,520 If you own the NFT, you have access to this car or holiday home for this week. 75 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,320 It could be access. 76 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,560 If you own the NFT, you can come to this country club. 77 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:09,240 If you own the NFT, you can go to this concert. 78 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,520 If you own the NFT, you can have dinner once a week with dream money. 79 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,360 It's a physical claim, right? 80 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:24,280 Redemption, which in all it's kind of similar to ownership, but I split it because I think 81 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:26,520 it's a different implementation form. 82 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:32,920 So there's people who say, well, you own the NFT and the NFT and the physical note together. 83 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:38,080 And as long as you own an NFT and you can redeem the NFT for the physical and the NFT 84 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:39,280 goes away, right? 85 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:42,400 And so the first is almost like a gift voucher. 86 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:43,400 It's not a good one. 87 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,040 It's kind of like a gift voucher for a physical object. 88 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:51,600 Whereas the redemption model is whereas the ownership model and they go together and they're 89 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:52,600 permanently together. 90 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,200 The NFT never gets burnt. 91 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,120 And you no longer have the physical object. 92 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,000 You send the NFT to the next person. 93 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,720 So the NFT and the physical object always live together. 94 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:11,200 And then there's this, I was thinking about it, but it also exists in the art NFT world 95 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,520 with some people have made blended or hybrid objects. 96 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:21,080 I am absolutely not going to write the word digital in the presentation. 97 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:29,320 But we bought a few of them recently and it's a beautiful NFT, but it also comes with a physical 98 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,680 painting in a frame. 99 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:40,520 And those are meant to be a unified piece of artwork, the NFT and the physical object 100 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:41,520 that comes with the art. 101 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:48,720 I'm sure there are other examples than what I mentioned here, but I think this is the 102 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,360 80%, 90% correct. 103 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,800 I think we're going to think about it. 104 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,960 I think you'd add here, G-money?. 105 00:07:55,960 --> 00:08:02,520 Yeah, I think to add one thing that I want to be immediately, the things that I thought 106 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:07,520 of immediately as to what is an NFT that people can conceptualize really well is a mortgage. 107 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,960 And to your point is like that's a claim. 108 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:17,200 And it helps people understand to the point you made earlier that pretty much everything 109 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,120 in the real world is an NFT. 110 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,480 We just don't call them NFTs. 111 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:26,120 Yeah, yeah, yeah, all correct. 112 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:36,920 That we have that we work with abstracted claims on physical objects is absolutely true. 113 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:43,320 For me, the one that I think users to describe to people is title deeds for real estate, 114 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:44,320 right? 115 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,400 You never transact the real estate itself. 116 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,480 You transact a piece of paper. 117 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:55,000 When you buy a house, you're not, even if you're buying a piece of land on a mountainside, 118 00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:00,680 the land doesn't know anything's changed, right? 119 00:09:00,680 --> 00:09:03,600 Maybe there's a fence, maybe there's a lot of fence, but nothing has changed the moment 120 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,040 you buy it from someone. 121 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:12,000 What has changed is we've shuffled around a piece of paper in someone's office. 122 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:20,680 And then when we have accepted as a social construction that the person who has access 123 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:26,720 to do things with that land is the person whose name and the county registrar's office, 124 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:31,760 right, where the land registry in places where it's more centralized. 125 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:38,640 And it is no more, but no less abstracted than how NFTs work, right? 126 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,000 And because a lot of people say, oh, but NFTs are just making it up. 127 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:47,040 There's no real linkage between NFT and there's no real linkage between the title deed and 128 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:48,040 your land. 129 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,600 The linkage is a social construction. 130 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:58,120 And in the case of land, a set of laws and regulations that say, well, if I have this, 131 00:09:58,120 --> 00:09:59,240 I'm allowed to be here. 132 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,800 And if G-money comes into my field, I can ask him to leave. 133 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,800 And if he does, I can call him the power of the state to get him out of here, right? 134 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,800 But the physical land doesn't know anything about this. 135 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:09,800 It's just a piece of land, right? 136 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,240 The thing that matters is the piece of paper in the office. 137 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:19,520 And so I think one way to think about it is we're talking about replacing that piece 138 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:25,200 of paper that is sitting in someone's filing cabinet or now on some databases where they 139 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,400 publicly visible, transactable, composable, talking. 140 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:29,400 All right. 141 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:34,920 Let's go to the expansion. 142 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:40,720 Now, physical claims do require a trusted counterparty, right? 143 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:47,320 And this is the major difference from the rest of digitally native tokens. 144 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,400 By the way, this is the way all society works, right? 145 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,680 So this isn't a negative statement. 146 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:56,280 This is the way how everything else in society works. 147 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:03,680 But it's important that this is a really important topic because I've seen many white papers 148 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:09,640 and presentations over the years that either don't understand this or like pretend not 149 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,440 to understand this, but it's important and it's different. 150 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:21,240 If I have a art blocks token in my wallet, okay, I have it in my wallet. 151 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,200 I don't need any third party, right? 152 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,120 And there, I mean, the code is on chain. 153 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,040 Like literally everything is in my wallet. 154 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:34,040 I can send it to you, you can send it back to me. 155 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:40,920 At no point do we need to request someone to do something in order to own the art. 156 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:50,960 Now, when we bought this hero piece in an auction, well, they transferred the token, 157 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:56,760 but then also now they have to ship the physical part. 158 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:02,880 And so I have to trust that the seller, in this case, I trust them as an auction house, 159 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:08,240 but like that the seller is capable of like packing it up correctly and mailing it to 160 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:13,480 the right place and getting appropriate insurance and not breaking it and, you know, all of 161 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,880 these things right there, the counterparty. 162 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:21,160 And if we ever send it somewhere else, we have to do the same thing, right? 163 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:25,880 There's sudden the counterparty in that case was the auction house was the seller. 164 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:30,640 And generally, you can think about the counterparty. 165 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,280 I think it's these three categories. 166 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,640 Maybe there's a fourth that I missed. 167 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:39,280 The most obvious one is the issuer of the claim, right? 168 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:47,040 If 90cc says, I'm going, if you own this NFT, you get this piece of clothing. 169 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:51,960 Well, the most obvious counterparty is the firm is going to say, I've showed up, I've 170 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,840 redeemed the NFT, I've burned the NFT, I want my t-shirt, right? 171 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:01,600 And so we have to trust that the t-shirts are there and you're well organized firm and 172 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,920 you haven't lost them and you'll send them to the right place and all of these things, 173 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:05,920 right? 174 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:06,920 And the same thing is true. 175 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:12,920 But this is our day to day life in the whole world, like when you booked a room at Marriott, 176 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:19,520 you're trusting the issuer of that claim that, you know, the Marriott on Canal Street is 177 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:20,920 in fact there and operating. 178 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:25,720 And when you show up and you say, like, here's my reservation from booking.com, and there's 179 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:33,400 a yes, Mr. 6'5", tonight, you have room 272 and the room's clean and it's available, 180 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,240 there's not someone else in it, right? 181 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:41,320 You're taking on a variety of counterparty risks that, as a general rule, married is 182 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:46,040 very good at if they rent your room for a night, they will deliver the room for the 183 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:47,040 rent you. 184 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,880 No, and sometimes they must have the new book and the same person, right? 185 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,560 There's a little bit of counterparty risk, there's not zero. 186 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:58,680 But within boundaries that society operates, right, it operates more or less okay. 187 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:00,080 That's one model, right? 188 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,520 The issuer is the counterparty. 189 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:09,160 Another model that you see, and some of these startups, we mentioned here, operate as well, 190 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:10,160 there's a centralized custodian. 191 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:18,320 And you're going to say, look, we're going to have, we're going to have gold bars as NFTs 192 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,680 and diamonds as NFTs, and how do I know the diamonds really there? 193 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:27,600 How do I trust that the person sends me the diamond that I bought? 194 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:34,720 Well, me, the centralized firm that's operating this NFT, the product or marketplace, says, 195 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:42,760 look, I have a big vault and all the diamonds are there and you guys can trade the NFTs 196 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,680 and the diamonds are not going over, it's always here, right? 197 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,240 It's always right here, and you can always come and then redeem it and claim it and get 198 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:51,240 the diamond. 199 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:59,840 And so you don't have to trust every single seller if they're going to deliver, right? 200 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,280 You just need to trust the custodian, in fact, the diamonds are there. 201 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,280 And this is how all financial markets work, right? 202 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:12,640 I mean, when you're buying and selling shares of stock, they're held in a custodian, it 203 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,520 changes, the shares never move just in reporting of who owns them. 204 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:21,040 This is how literally the US stock market's working, it's a centralized custodian. 205 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:28,840 And then there's one interesting idea I saw here and I'm sure we'll see more of this, 206 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,760 where they're trying to build a network of decentralized custodians, right? 207 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:37,720 So there was that one custodian, there's multiple custodians in an operate, like a node in the 208 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:42,480 network and say, oh, I'm storing this physical object here. 209 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,840 And I was trying to think if there's like a fourth version of this was not obvious to 210 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:53,160 me what it would be, and the issuer of custodian or network of custodians. 211 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,960 Have you seen another model on this? 212 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,200 No, I think that's pretty comprehensive. 213 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:04,320 When I was going through this framework, like, I was pretty much the same. 214 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:10,000 And I very much felt like there would be a need very soon of having these centralized 215 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,840 custodians within crypto because to your point, it exists today, right? 216 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,600 I mean, if you were to look up what a free port is, it's a centralized custodian where 217 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,800 exactly to your model that you said with real estate is the same type of transaction that 218 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,880 happens with art already. 219 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:29,320 Yep. 220 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:35,520 And then what does the counterparty have to do? 221 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:41,080 Well, the counterparty has to make sure the claim is executed. 222 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,920 That the authenticity is matchbook on both sides, right? 223 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,680 Like, they've got to manage both sides of authenticity. 224 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,640 That the concert is actually happening, right? 225 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,600 And Taylor Swift will be there. 226 00:16:54,600 --> 00:17:00,600 But also that the claim ticket you've come with is the right one because if they recognize 227 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,960 the wrong one, then two people are going to be fighting for that seat, right? 228 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:11,680 So that's a managed, the authenticity of the product or service and of the claim ticket. 229 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,760 And then, you know, general quality assurance, which is everything from, you know, it's not 230 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,360 broken and it's there and has a lost your soul order. 231 00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:21,360 Your bed hasn't been made. 232 00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:23,600 I mean, it's an endless topic. 233 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,320 Quality assurance could mean anything. 234 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:36,240 And basically you're trusting the counterparty to deliver what is what has been bought through 235 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:37,240 that NFT. 236 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:38,240 Okay. 237 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,240 Let's go to the next slide. 238 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:51,640 Now this to me is a very big point because I've had this discussion with many people over 239 00:17:51,640 --> 00:18:00,200 the last two years and they say, okay, this is fine, but why do you need NFTs for this? 240 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:05,520 You have all types of databases that do this now. 241 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:15,600 If you go to Expedia or booking.com, you can go and buy a claim on a hotel room in New 242 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,240 York on January 23rd. 243 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,240 And it works fine. 244 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:23,240 It's just a database. 245 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:29,240 You don't need all the aggravation of crypto and wallets and gas and Ethereum and all the 246 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,240 stuff. 247 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:31,240 Right. 248 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:36,320 And it sounds at first glance like a good question. 249 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,640 And but it's actually not a very good question. 250 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:40,640 It sounds like a very good question. 251 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,640 It sounds like a whole gosh, right. 252 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,000 We don't need to do this. 253 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:50,920 And the reason the big opportunity is too full. 254 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,480 How does it work when you go to booking.com? 255 00:18:53,480 --> 00:19:00,680 Well, each each hotel has its own reservation system, right? 256 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:06,640 And they allocate different groups to different other systems. 257 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:07,640 Right. 258 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:12,000 They might say, I'm holding these 10 back because I'm going to do something for my conference 259 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,000 or whatever. 260 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,000 Booking.com can book these whatever, 100 groups. 261 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,320 I'm simplifying this. 262 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:26,360 And then you buy it on primary on primary. 263 00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:27,360 It works. 264 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:28,360 Okay. 265 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:30,520 But you still don't see the full order book, right? 266 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,520 You see what you're seeing in a certain marketplace. 267 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:38,160 It's like content management systems before the Internet. 268 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,960 If you went to someone's content management system, you see the content there, but there 269 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,200 might be content or in this case inventory in a different system. 270 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,400 And you won't see that inventory. 271 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:50,400 Right. 272 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,840 So one, relatively smaller pieces. 273 00:19:52,840 --> 00:20:06,160 Well, if the inventory is just represented as an NFT, the platforms might compete on UX 274 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:11,440 or UI, but you'll see all of the inventory anywhere. 275 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,240 You could go directly and see all the inventory on a generic platform. 276 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:16,880 It opens your ether scan or whatever. 277 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,680 You could always go see the inventory. 278 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,240 But that's not the big idea. 279 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:25,160 The big idea is you develop a secondary market. 280 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,280 And so what do I mean by this? 281 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:39,560 Let's say it's January 23rd and I need to be New York and it's time sensitive and I haven't 282 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,280 booked my hotel. 283 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:43,280 Right. 284 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:44,280 And I don't know. 285 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:49,640 There's a conference happening and you go and see, oh gosh, it's all sold out or this. 286 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,280 I mean, New York never really sells up. 287 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:56,200 But the approximate is all sold out or there's only these five options instead of the 100 288 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,200 options. 289 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,400 Is that really true at all? 290 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:09,960 Is it really true that I cannot get a room that I am not the highest possible bidder 291 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:11,920 for at least one of the other rooms? 292 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:16,480 You almost recognize it's in fact, not true at all. 293 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:21,720 In fact, that night in New York, there will be some couple from Massachusetts that booked 294 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:27,400 the room six months ago and paid 200 bucks for it and they don't have a time sensitive 295 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,000 reason that they want to be in New York. 296 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:36,040 And if I could find that couple and say, hey, would you like 400 bucks and I'll take your 297 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,160 room at the 23rd and you can come back any other day. 298 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,160 You're not 10 cents. 299 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:40,160 We're just here on holiday. 300 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:47,640 You're an elderly couple and would you prefer to come back next week and also put $200 in 301 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:48,640 your pocket? 302 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,720 And ask me, oh, yes, that sounds very good. 303 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,880 Like they win and I win. 304 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,960 But there's no way to do that now, right? 305 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:04,520 Because the secondary, the claims once they're issued are fragmented. 306 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:05,520 They're missing. 307 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:11,320 There's no easy way to trade a digital good for currency. 308 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,600 Trustlessly, we know how this works, right? 309 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,880 There's all point of crypto. 310 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:23,280 And so if you imagined instead that every room for every night and every hotel in New 311 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:29,240 York was represented by an NFT and think about how opens he works today, right? 312 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:34,320 The interface would be a little bit different, but conceptually, you go there and go on the 313 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:46,360 page on a New York City and say January 23rd, hotels four and five star, midtown and below. 314 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:53,240 I'm putting a collection wide bid of $400. 315 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,160 I'm pretty certain in that world, which is always a way, right? 316 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:04,440 In that world, that bid would hit instantly even on a night that most hotels are supposed 317 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,640 to sold out, right? 318 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:13,360 And what this means is you can actually create secondary markets and everything. 319 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:17,760 And here we're going to have an intellectual discussion with somebody who's like, oh, I 320 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,960 don't like markets. 321 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,800 Why does everything have to be markets? 322 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:27,080 The point is in a capital economy, everything's ready markets. 323 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:35,320 This just makes the markets more correct, more efficient. 324 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:41,400 If you help people make a voluntary trade that they couldn't have made previously, you've 325 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,040 increased the utility in the world. 326 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,840 You haven't decreased them. 327 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,560 Now that, and then you can do all types of, I mean, wild things, right? 328 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:56,920 You will have people arming hotel nights, right? 329 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,760 As well, that sounds bad. 330 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:05,000 But sometimes the size of hotels, market prices will come into line. 331 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:13,200 I was thinking about this during COVID when some governments were like paying hotels preemptively 332 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,320 to book some rights in the future to keep them alive. 333 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:24,080 I'm saying, no, this would make more sense that the hotels could sell those claims cheaply. 334 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:29,680 And someone else could take on the risk that the lockdown ends and they can sell them more 335 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,000 expensive, right? 336 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:38,120 The hotels needed some minimal amount of cash at point X to lockdown to not go bankrupt. 337 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:42,960 And they had these future claims that nobody's booking because nobody knows what the lockdown 338 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:43,960 is ending. 339 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,120 But some financial industry will take that risk at some price. 340 00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:50,080 There's some prices that I know I don't know what the locals are doing right in. 341 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:58,440 I'll buy the hotel room now for $30 and hope to resell it for $130. 342 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,840 And that happens to some degree with travel agents. 343 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:11,880 But again, just like NFTs, what they're doing to the fine art market, right, is democratizing. 344 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:17,920 If you wanted to buy, if you wanted to buy a key pairing, you basically have to walk into 345 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,120 one of X places in the world, what's the price? 346 00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:23,120 physically. 347 00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:31,160 If you want to buy a ringer, you just need an internet connection. 348 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:37,480 And there's no specific extra advantage you have if you're a fancy institutional investor, 349 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:45,960 if you're an art expert, if you are just a random person, you have the same first class 350 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:51,360 access to the distribution rails for fine art. 351 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:54,560 For everyone in the world instantaneously, it's amazing. 352 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:55,560 Also true for artists. 353 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,160 I mean, I mean, I'm an obvious institutional artist. 354 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,640 Distribution rails can't fix them, right? 355 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:08,760 But the fact that you, brand new artists, you can be an 18 year old in India, and you 356 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,520 will have the same distribution rails as Tyler Hobbs says. 357 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,920 Not the same branding, not the same promotion, that's different, right? 358 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,400 Not the same reputation, that's also different. 359 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,000 But before you didn't even have the distribution rails, right, you would have that 18 year 360 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:27,720 old kid in Andobot couldn't get into the gallery in London or in Soho or in Miami or 361 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:28,720 Switzerland. 362 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,400 Right, but here they have the same rules. 363 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:38,920 And this model is now extensible once this happens, once this happens, to everything, 364 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,760 not just art, everything. 365 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:50,560 Everyone can have the same ability to buy, sell, trade, claims in the physical world, 366 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:55,360 instantly, globally with an air connection. 367 00:26:55,360 --> 00:27:00,560 Arguably this, someday, will be a bigger deal of a native initial. 368 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:06,080 Quite a way in the future, I'll come back in a second, but arguably will be bigger because 369 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:11,960 this can represent everything, including the whole physical based economy, which is the 370 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:17,120 vast majority of the largest asset class in the space, in the world, by a lot, is real 371 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:19,120 estate, right? 372 00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:26,000 So actually, in real estate, can come and owner or rented, and I'm just being renting 373 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,360 an apartment, hotels or rental, rental, right? 374 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:42,520 So once we can make efficient markets, if it sounds weird in the hotel space, think 375 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,680 about it for the real estate space. 376 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:52,560 Real estate is extremely sticky, a liquid high transaction cost, right? 377 00:27:52,560 --> 00:28:02,720 Imagine if every apartment in Miami, you could put a bid, ask for, etc, and like, hey, 378 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,520 I need liquidity, I need to get out of my apartment now, right? 379 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,640 I need to be out now. 380 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,040 You put a low ask, right? 381 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,280 You put a low, by now price. 382 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:19,720 That will get sniped in a way that it won't happen in the current system, right? 383 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:27,800 And so, bringing markets, including secondary markets to all the world's physical goods 384 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:33,520 and services, is another one of these, like, give you huge ideas. 385 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:42,600 But unlike the native visual here, VT, let's go to the next slide, there are challenges. 386 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:52,040 The reason NFTs took off first in native visual, the reason Fedenzas took off, is because Fedenzas 387 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:58,760 didn't need permission from anyone to mint the token and put the code in the token. 388 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:04,280 And that, to take the simple example, is not truly real estate. 389 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:12,880 A binding sale of real estate has a bunch of semi-now arcade paperwork that needs that. 390 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,880 And if you don't do that paperwork, you haven't actually bought the real estate. 391 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:27,280 And so, I cannot just spin up an NFT collection, say, hey, this NFT represents my house. 392 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,680 And if you buy the NFT, you now own my house, because you could go then go to the 393 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,960 title office and still going to have my name on it. 394 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,040 And for the title office to accept that the new owner has bought it, they're going to 395 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,440 want to see it as it varies by country. 396 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,680 But in many countries, it requires a physical signature, right? 397 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,360 And witnesses and all these things, right? 398 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,480 So, understandably, that house is important. 399 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,640 People don't want to lose their house for bad transaction. 400 00:29:53,640 --> 00:30:03,240 And so, there's in many cases, a regulatory bridge is one of the things that keeps saying, 401 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:04,240 that needs to come in place. 402 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:09,200 Well, that coming place tomorrow for real estate is Congress working on allowing us 403 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,080 to trade NFTs representing houses now. 404 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:21,040 They're currently complaining if they want to shut down crypto or whatever wild ideas 405 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,040 they get, right? 406 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,040 But will this happen? 407 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,560 And yes, it will happen for the same reason that these signatures happen, right? 408 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,040 Eventually, we will be able to represent claims digitally. 409 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:36,400 They will be legally binding, and that will take care of the first bucket. 410 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:42,680 The second and third bucket are kind of the same, but, well, I separate them as follows. 411 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,200 And I'm going to ask too many about this. 412 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:52,880 Like, you know, how do I know the shirt that I own is the same shirt as the NFT, right? 413 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,400 How do you actually make that linkage? 414 00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:01,320 The third is the counterpart of stuff, like how is it actually, how is the physical delivery, 415 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,480 the physical execution happen? 416 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:08,480 And generally, because of these things, the space is still quite immature. 417 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,240 I don't know what percent of the NFT market represents. 418 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,720 NFT is the physical component, but it's pretty small. 419 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,000 And the NFT market itself is very immature. 420 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,960 The NFT market is maybe a $10 billion market cap. 421 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,160 It's like, I don't know, 1% of crypto and crypto is still a very immature asset class, right? 422 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:33,680 So this is the immature end of the immature end of a fairly immature asset class. 423 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:41,880 But this also has the opposite perspective that this is why there's potentially a big 424 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:42,880 opportunity. 425 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:49,000 Once things are mature and working and they've spent decades, we in society have spent decades 426 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,680 getting them to work in a boring manner, there's usually less fewer business opportunities 427 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,280 because it's now quite efficient. 428 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,640 So anything you'd say here? 429 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,120 I think that this is pretty spot on. 430 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,440 You know, I've been experiencing a lot of these firsthand, right? 431 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:13,320 I think when you talk about legal frameworks of, first off, you have governments trying 432 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,200 to wrap their head around NFTs. 433 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:22,000 And now, as I think, my thesis is that NFTs will be coming into the real world and that 434 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,280 this tech will be coming into the real world. 435 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,840 And you do have to deal with the issues that you have highlighted here, right? 436 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:33,320 It's like, how do you associate the physical with the digital? 437 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,760 How do you handle shipping, insurance, damages? 438 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,520 How do you prove authenticity? 439 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,560 To me, these are all things that the space will have to deal with heads on, right? 440 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,960 And really deal with archaic laws that already exist, right? 441 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,600 And how you kind of retrofit that and create a framework for going forward, which I think 442 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,160 will be really interesting. 443 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,280 And to your point is where this is where a lot of the opportunity lies, right? 444 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:04,760 Because once people figure this out and once people understand exactly how these things 445 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,520 will be handled going forward, then a lot of those opportunities will then be gone by 446 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:09,520 them. 447 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:10,520 Agreed. 448 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:15,880 Let's see the next slide, VT. 449 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,000 So this is a slide I use a lot. 450 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,760 And it's very conceptual, right? 451 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,880 Like there's not actual dates in there. 452 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,280 All the things on the left are the things that could be done natively digital or intangible 453 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:31,280 assets. 454 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:37,920 And intangible assets are big categories, post to $80 trillion category. 455 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,240 And all types of things can be in there and those can happen, I think, faster because 456 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,200 you don't have to solve these bridges in the physical world. 457 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:51,080 And then abstracted physical or tangible assets, which are services and goods. 458 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,440 I think services like come even faster than goods. 459 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,240 It's going to be less of a regulatory hurdle to sell a tailor-subtricate ticket than sell 460 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,360 your house, right? 461 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:06,160 And then ultimately, ultimately, the ultimate claim is governance in the physical world. 462 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,960 I think that will come too. 463 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,840 Now, I think we will see more of the ladder of the physical stuff in the second half 464 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:18,040 of the decade and digital as obviously started now and will continue. 465 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,000 It doesn't mean we have to wait until 2025. 466 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,400 This is, we have people like G-money and he doing it today. 467 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:31,800 But because of these specific topics that need to be solved, it will take longer to ramp 468 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:32,800 up. 469 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:38,400 So, I think these are my general topics. 470 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:45,400 Let's go to 9DCC, which I think is a couple of slides forward. 471 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:51,360 And before we get into any sophisticated thoughts, tell us what it is. 472 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:59,400 Yeah, so at a really high level, 9DCC is a crypto-native luxury lifestyle brand. 473 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:05,320 And the reason why I felt like that there was a need for it is when I was going around 474 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:10,880 to conferences and I was going around and meeting people in real life, I quickly realized 475 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:18,120 that the same way that I can signal that I'm a crypto-native with my crypto-punk, and 476 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:24,720 that was my thesis for buying my ape when I did was this is a flex, this is a signal 477 00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:28,400 that I am sending to my peers in a digital world. 478 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:34,320 Nothing like that existed to the way that I wanted it, in terms of an aesthetic that 479 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:39,440 I wanted to wear, that I could signal to the real world that I'm a crypto-native and having 480 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:45,840 the quality of product that I wanted to wear in terms of production. 481 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,720 You know, just generally like things that I would wear, it just didn't exist. 482 00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:56,080 And so rather than wait for somebody else to go out and build it, I decided to do it 483 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,840 on my own. 484 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,800 So let me put it back in my words. 485 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:08,840 Obviously there's all types of quote unquote flexes in the physical world in terms of existing 486 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:16,800 physical products, but you from an aesthetic or messaging perspective, they're not crypto-native, 487 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:17,800 right? 488 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,320 Like there's existing luxury brands are not crypto-native. 489 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,800 So yeah, so I felt like that there was this kind of like if you had like these two subsets, 490 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:26,800 right? 491 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:32,240 It's like, you know, you could, I could walk into a Dior store and I could buy a shirt 492 00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:34,360 off the rack and I could wear that out. 493 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,760 And that would obviously be of the quality that I wanted. 494 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,560 But that wouldn't signal that I was a crypto native. 495 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,120 And on the opposite end of the spectrum, I feel like there was a lot of product from 496 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,320 the crypto world that, okay, I can signal that I'm a crypto native with it, but it wasn't 497 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,240 necessarily the quality or the community that I would necessarily want to be a part of. 498 00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:58,080 And so I feel like there will be this growing intersection of the overlap of those two communities 499 00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:59,080 over time. 500 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:09,200 I'm going to take a step back here because you very famously were one of the first people, 501 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:16,680 maybe the first person to pay an awful lot of money for a crypto book for your ape. 502 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:24,920 And I think that kind of snowballed the big rally in crypto punks. 503 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,480 Tell us a little bit about the logic because you said it was like that logic. 504 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,200 So let's tell the group that logic. 505 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,400 How do this all start? 506 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:34,400 Yeah. 507 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:43,440 So, you know, I, when I found NFTs, it was August of 2020, and they like almost immediately 508 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,520 made sense to me because I started playing Fortnite at the beginning of quarantine. 509 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,960 And that was back in March of 2020. 510 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,240 And when I was playing with all these kids, you know, teenagers, the first thing that they 511 00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:57,240 would ask me is, you know, what skins did you buy? 512 00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:00,040 And skins that they don't give you any special powers. 513 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,400 The only thing they do is change how you look while you play that game. 514 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,400 And these kids would be changing their skins every, you know, 10 to 20 minutes, depending 515 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,240 on how long the game was. 516 00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:13,760 And I was, I said to myself, like, there's this massive super cycle here where that kid 517 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,680 is 12 years old today, 10 years from now, he'll be 22 and he'll have his own disposable 518 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,720 income and he'll be totally okay with owning a purely digital asset. 519 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:29,320 Now at the time, I had no idea what NFTs were, but it was an idea that stuck with me. 520 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:34,600 And when I found NFTs, I was like, wow, this is your skin on Twitter, right? 521 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:40,520 Like this is literally, you know, the same way that if I got a limited edition skin that 522 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,720 now trades on eBay at a premium, this type of thing would happen. 523 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:50,360 And to your point is, there is a secondary marketplace that exists for, you know, the 524 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,880 value of this thing to be found on in a free market. 525 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,400 And so I started delving down the crypto rabbit hole, the NFT rabbit hole, because I was already 526 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,080 in crypto. 527 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:07,800 And I saw crypto punks and I think the floor was maybe around $1,000 at the time, but 528 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,160 I said, oh, these are too expensive. 529 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,800 I want to find the next crypto punks. 530 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:17,960 And I ended up minting a bunch of chromisquiggles and, you know, Snowfro and a few other OGs 531 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,320 where, you know, they told me, what are you doing? 532 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,280 Like, you know, you should be buying a crypto punk. 533 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,480 You should buy a zombie or what, you know, or something like a big, a rare one, a super 534 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:28,480 rare one. 535 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,960 And, you know, I started spending some time really researching it. 536 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:38,720 And that's kind of where I developed my thesis, which is my, my pin tweet in my Twitter, 537 00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:43,360 where, you know, humans are, you know, social creatures, right? 538 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,680 And even though the technology of how we interact with each other will change, but the one 539 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:54,160 thing that doesn't change is, you know, the way we signal to each other, the way we interact 540 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:55,160 with each other. 541 00:39:55,160 --> 00:40:01,440 And like a really simple example that I always use is, you know, if we were to meet for dinner 542 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:07,760 6529 and we were to sit down and I were to show you my bank account, like that, like, 543 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,560 that would be weird, right? 544 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,760 That's just not how humans like interact with each other. 545 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:18,880 But I could almost send a very similar signal by wearing a nice watch, by driving a nice 546 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:23,600 car, by wearing nice clothes that, oh, you know, you don't know exactly how much is my 547 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:24,840 bank account. 548 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:29,920 But judging by the nature of the things that I am wearing or consuming, you can have a 549 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:35,840 good idea of like, oh, if this person is doing X, then, you know, it probably signals Y. 550 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,400 And that's just the way humans operate because that's, you know, that and that's been since 551 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:40,400 the dawn of time. 552 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,040 And it's not just humans, right? 553 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:48,040 It is other animals that do certain things or have certain behavior patterns. 554 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,640 That is, let's say, for mating or for social hierarchy within their groups. 555 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:58,960 And so my thesis very quickly became that, okay, the same way that me wearing a Rolex 556 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:04,400 to a nice dinner allows me to send a signal in that smaller group. 557 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:10,320 Me spending a certain amount of money that's verifiable on chain for a picture also sends 558 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:15,280 that signal of one, you know, what part of the community am I a part of? 559 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:21,200 But then two is also it's a verifiable signal that has a ton of scale, right? 560 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:26,880 So when I drive a Lamborghini through my neighborhood, then maybe only like 10 to 50 people see 561 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:28,160 it that day. 562 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,760 But if I buy something that's worth the same amount as that Lamborghini and I make it my 563 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:38,040 profile picture, then that scales to thousands, if not millions of people with the same, with 564 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:39,480 the same exact outlay. 565 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:44,760 And so that was like my original thesis for CryptoPunks and the APE. 566 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:50,120 And you know, it just, it was, to me, it's like it's signaled after spending, you know, 567 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,360 some time in the space in the NFT space, it's signaled what I thought would be maybe the 568 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:59,080 most crypto native OG community in the NFT space. 569 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,200 And so for that reason, people would want to be associated over time and it would hold 570 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:08,920 that provenance and it would hold that upper echelon within the community, even, you know, 571 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,920 through in into bear markets and bull markets. 572 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:12,920 Got it. 573 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:19,440 And then I think a big part of that turned out to be turned out to be right. 574 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:28,520 And then you're now saying, okay, when I'm interacting with my crypto community in real 575 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,840 life, how to represent these same things. 576 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:38,360 And that's a lot of, let me ask you, you're saying, is this somehow different? 577 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,560 And how is it different that you say, well, look, I'm making nice clothes. 578 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,080 What's different about that? 579 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:46,920 I think that there are a few things. 580 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,280 I think one is I'm integrating the technology into it, right? 581 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,720 But also it's like, you know, what does it stand for? 582 00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:54,720 Right? 583 00:42:54,720 --> 00:43:00,500 Because like I said, there is no, like I could wear a Bored APE, eight on my shirt, but that's 584 00:43:00,500 --> 00:43:03,680 just generally not an aesthetic that I would want to wear. 585 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:08,680 And I think like for me, like the aesthetic that I created with 90 CC is something that 586 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,160 I would be interested in wearing. 587 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,200 I hope others would be interested in wearing. 588 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:17,120 I think it's a level of quality of, you know, I've been to a lot of crypto conferences. 589 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,800 I mean, people spend a lot of money on clothes. 590 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:21,680 People spend a lot of money on how they look. 591 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:26,160 And so, but the problem is is that there's no way to signal that you're a crypto native. 592 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,680 So I think that that was, that was the first pillar that I wanted to solve. 593 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,360 But then like where I think things get really interesting is, you know, kind of what's mentioned 594 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,920 on this slide here is where, you know, you can have a certificate of authenticity that 595 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,000 travels with the physical product, right? 596 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,360 And when you look at watches, right, I think watches are a great example where if you buy 597 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:49,760 a watch with paperwork, it's worth significantly more than a watch without paperwork, right? 598 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:55,840 So, you know, there, there is a good, a good proof case that there is a significant amount 599 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,600 of value placed on that certificate of authenticity. 600 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:04,240 And the more interlinked that you can make that certificate of authenticity with the 601 00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:09,600 actual product, then the less risk there is of that thing being a fake, right? 602 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:15,800 You know, secondhand goods, secondhand luxury goods is a massive business and it's growing. 603 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,600 Like fake goods that are made is a massive business and it's still growing. 604 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,720 And so all of these things that there's, there is a lot of need for this, but there isn't 605 00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:28,400 necessarily a solution out there that works at scale. 606 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,520 Because when you want to make, if you were to buy a product secondhand, you need to take 607 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:37,320 it to an expert that could still doesn't guarantee that it's actually real, right? 608 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:42,660 Because every, each and every day, fakes are getting better and better in terms of quality. 609 00:44:42,660 --> 00:44:46,960 So that somebody that might have caught a fake, you know, three to five years ago might not 610 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:48,800 be able to catch that fake today. 611 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:53,840 So what better way than to have a certificate of authenticity that is provable on a decentralized 612 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:58,800 ledger by just scanning the shirt instead of, let's say, having to increase that cost 613 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:03,240 of transaction by having to go to an expert to verify that it's real. 614 00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:08,160 And even then that verification doesn't necessarily guarantee that it's real. 615 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,640 So you said there's the tech. 616 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,560 How does that work? 617 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,160 So it's really simple. 618 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:21,560 So on all of our iteration one and iteration two shirts, you can see in the patch where 619 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:26,800 the nine is on both those shirts and those pictures, there's an NFT chip behind that 620 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,960 patch, which you can then scan. 621 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:36,400 And it takes you to a page that shows you the NFT that represents that shirt on the blockchain. 622 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,760 And that it is held in that owner's wallet. 623 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,800 So there's a little chip embedded in the shirt. 624 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:44,800 Yeah. 625 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:45,800 What? 626 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:46,800 Yes. 627 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,800 And you can longer it with a wash it. 628 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,800 Yeah. 629 00:45:51,800 --> 00:46:03,240 And this and the NFT, if I go now and just buy one of these NFTs online. 630 00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:04,960 So where's the shirt? 631 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:06,080 How do I get it? 632 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:11,640 So the way we did the drop mechanic was we partnered with 4K, which is a centralized 633 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:18,240 custodian, to your point that you were saying earlier, right, is what I found that, you know, 634 00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:22,200 when you take a look at, you know, sneaker culture and you take a look at the resale 635 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,760 market, a lot of people will buy more than one product, right? 636 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:32,960 So you'll buy like people always say, one to one to cop and one to one to rock and one 637 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:34,040 to cop. 638 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:39,960 And so what ends up happening is people will store a pair of sneakers in their closet 639 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,560 and they will never wear them. 640 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,880 And that stays stored in their closet until they dig the day they go to sell it. 641 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:50,520 And so my thought process is if I'm only going to be storing it in my closet and the 642 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,040 only time I'm going to touch it is when I actually go to sell it, there's technically 643 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,000 no reason for me to take delivery. 644 00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:00,160 Much the same way that stocks work, right, is like you don't physically take delivery 645 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,200 of the shares when you buy and sell it. 646 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:08,400 You have a claim on those shares that is managed by a central database that will tell you that 647 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:13,680 runs their own ledger that tells you you buy or you own or you buy or sell an asset. 648 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:18,560 And so what we did is we partnered with 4K, so when we made all of the shirts, we delivered 649 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:26,720 them to 4K and 4K then issued an NFT voucher which represents that T-shirt in their warehouse. 650 00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:30,280 And we can go around and you can trade that a thousand times. 651 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:35,240 And then at any given point in time, whoever owns that voucher can then go to 4K and claim 652 00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:40,520 that shirt and get it delivered to them anywhere in the world within three to five days, which 653 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:50,160 I think is an insanely amazing feat considering where we are with the resale of goods today 654 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:56,400 where it happens on eBay, it happens on StockX, the cost of transactions is way higher because 655 00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:02,120 you have to verify things that might be in the condition that might not be in the condition 656 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:07,400 that they're supposed to be in, but then also the length of time that it takes to verify 657 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:14,480 that something is real, to get it sent from the seller, to the authenticator, to the buyer, 658 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,240 just like there's a lot of friction there. 659 00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:21,420 And I feel like by placing these assets in a centralized custodian that to your point 660 00:48:21,420 --> 00:48:26,840 is can verify the condition that they're in and can verify delivery and that there's 661 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:33,360 actually an actual physical product there, you then make the friction much lower, right? 662 00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:40,240 And you increase this ability for people to conduct commerce on a much global scale. 663 00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:50,640 And does 4K charge the, let's say I buy the NFT, now I have a claim on a shirt at 4K, 664 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,080 do I have to pay annual storage? 665 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:54,160 How does it work? 666 00:48:54,160 --> 00:49:00,080 So the way we work the first shop, the first shop has free lifetime storage, the second 667 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:05,640 shop has free storage for two years, free storage and insurance for two years. 668 00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:10,880 And then afterwards, I believe the fee might be like around $2 a year, per shirt. 669 00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:17,440 I don't know the exact thoughts off my head, but it very much would work in terms of like 670 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:23,640 if anybody sees, and this is like long term, but if anybody has seen storage wars where 671 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:28,720 somebody were to default on like their storage fees at some point, then they obviously forfeit 672 00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:33,520 the asset that's held in the warehouse and then it would go to auction. 673 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:34,520 Right. 674 00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:43,080 And then if, so I can trade and then the person who buys it knows the shirt bagging it, if 675 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:50,640 I redeem the shirt, does my NFT change from like a mid pass NFT to a kind of ownership 676 00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:51,640 NFT? 677 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:52,640 Yeah. 678 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:57,760 So what ends up happening is when you claim the shirt, you burn your NFT, which is basically 679 00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,720 a bearer instrument for that shirt in their warehouse. 680 00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:02,400 They ship you the shirt. 681 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:07,560 When you get this fit, when you get the physical shirt, you unpack it, you then scan the tag 682 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:14,120 and then you can pull the NFT into your wallet, which acts as the certificate of authenticity. 683 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:20,280 So like for me, like one of the things that I had a really tough time wrapping my head 684 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,920 around and you know, when I when I met the team in IYK, it made the most sense to me 685 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:30,040 where up until that point, all the solutions that I had seen linking the physical product 686 00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:35,840 to the digital NFT didn't scale because it works great on the primary sale, right? 687 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,920 It works great if you are the first person to buy the product for me. 688 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,880 I ship you the shirt and I ship you the NFT. 689 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,680 But now what happens if you want to turn around and you want to sell it to somebody else, 690 00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:47,760 right? 691 00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,200 It doesn't scale because if you were to if you were to give them that shirt and somebody 692 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:56,920 were to give you cash, then you need to go home and send them that NFT. 693 00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:01,520 Now as soon as you have that cash, you are no longer incentivized to send them that NFT. 694 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,440 You'll get to it when you get to it. 695 00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,000 But by and that's a push mechanism, right? 696 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:12,200 By using the pull mechanism, which IYK, you know, originally were the first people that 697 00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:13,440 spoke to me about it. 698 00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:17,360 I thought it was genius in the sense that whoever has physical possession of the shirt 699 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:23,480 can then pull that NFT, that certificate of authenticity into their wallet. 700 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,760 So you know, when they say possession is nine tenths of the law, you know, that that rings 701 00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:32,600 really true in the sense that yes, you have that physical certificate of authenticity 702 00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:38,480 that travels with the actual shirts so that in that interaction that I just told you about, 703 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:42,080 then as soon as you get your money, then the transaction is over. 704 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:47,880 That person can then pull that certificate of authenticity into their wallet whenever they 705 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:48,880 want. 706 00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:54,560 So basically it's a custom contract that IYK runs. 707 00:51:54,560 --> 00:52:01,440 And if you scan the physical, whoever has access to the physical good can pull the virtual 708 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:02,440 day. 709 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:03,440 Yes. 710 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,960 It's really interesting. 711 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:13,360 And like the thing that I really liked about it was that it was just nobody else had really 712 00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:14,840 come up with that solution at the time. 713 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,440 This was, you know, over a year ago at this point. 714 00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,120 And I was like, wow, that to me is something that's super scalable, right? 715 00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:26,440 That because again, going back to the watch example where, you know, you have, you can 716 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:32,800 make an argument that the paperwork that certificate of authenticity is equally as valuable if 717 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:37,520 not maybe more valuable than the actual watch itself, right? 718 00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,800 Because that's the proof that this is real. 719 00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:40,800 Right. 720 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:54,520 And even though, and people can't, can they copy that? 721 00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:55,520 The NFT? 722 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,640 The code is scanned. 723 00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,680 No, because the code is like it's locked into the chip. 724 00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:09,880 So, you know, if you like, if you wanted to, let's say, make a fake, right? 725 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:14,880 It ultimately wouldn't have, you know, you wouldn't be able to claim the actual NFT fraud 726 00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,880 that originally comes from the 90 CC wallet. 727 00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,600 You know, when you talk about provenance and we obviously talk about this with artists all 728 00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:22,600 the time. 729 00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:27,560 And the reason why I named the brand 90 CC is that is the wallet that is the proof, the 730 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:28,920 provenance, right? 731 00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:30,760 All our NFTs come from there. 732 00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:32,080 Come from that wallet. 733 00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:36,320 So then you can chain, you can, you can track that chain of history, right? 734 00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:40,480 Where it's like, it will come if you bought a shirt, you bought it from 90 CC. 735 00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:45,640 It goes from 90 CC's wallet to 6529's wallet to whoever other wallet who buys it there 736 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:46,880 after you. 737 00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:48,840 And that to me becomes super important, right? 738 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:53,240 So it's like, if somebody were to make a fake, they could, they can make a fake of everything, 739 00:53:53,240 --> 00:53:57,640 except for the actual NFT that can then be pulled into the wallet. 740 00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,960 So when you talk about, you know, verifying authenticity, all of a sudden, instead of 741 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:06,760 having to go to an authenticator to make something as real, it literally just comes down to 742 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,200 something as simple as a scam. 743 00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:11,400 Very interesting. 744 00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:12,400 Okay. 745 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:17,760 So what, what have been the challenges? 746 00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:22,920 I'll say the challenges have been like dealing with the meat space, right? 747 00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:28,360 dealing with all the things that that you were talking about in terms of, you know, regulation, 748 00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:35,120 shipping, taxes, all these things that there isn't enough regulatory clarity around things 749 00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:36,280 yet. 750 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,480 And we're trying to navigate things the best that we can. 751 00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:44,760 While also like, you know, trying to operate at the forefront of technology of, you know, 752 00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:50,480 a lot of this comes from these are things that I just want to see in the world as a consumer, 753 00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:51,480 right? 754 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:56,840 If I'm spending hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on something that's expensive, 755 00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:01,800 I would like to know like, verifiably, how many of them exist, right? 756 00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:06,400 Like, I think this, this always happens, I think with a lot of the luxury goods markets 757 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:10,040 is where people like, you know, you'll ask is like, how many of these exist? 758 00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,320 And they give you a number, but like, you can't necessarily verify that. 759 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,080 Like, they could be over producing or under producing. 760 00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:23,240 And, you know, really relying on the customer's trust, but it's like, why shouldn't it exist 761 00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:27,920 in a way so that people understand exactly how many of them exist in the real world? 762 00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,600 Because that also affects long-term value as well, right? 763 00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:35,560 Of like, you know, like t-shirts are going to be naturally deflationary, right? 764 00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,680 In terms of, you know, there's wear and tear over time. 765 00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:40,560 There's as soon as you wear one, right? 766 00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:44,640 It's worth, it's worth a different amount than a brand new, never worn shirt. 767 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:48,600 So I think that will affect, it's going to be really interesting to watch this play out 768 00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:49,720 long-term. 769 00:55:49,720 --> 00:55:55,360 But I'll say like a lot of the, a lot of the stuff has been in terms of delivering quickly, 770 00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:56,360 right? 771 00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:00,120 Having an idea where, you know, in a digital space, I can have an idea and I can execute 772 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,680 it relatively quickly because there's no physical manufacturing component. 773 00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:09,160 But I think when you start getting into the manufacturing of things and the physicality 774 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,920 of things, things start to get much more complicated, right? 775 00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:18,720 And so I'll use like our second drop, which was iteration two, which we did with Snowfro. 776 00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:21,080 It was the collaboration with Snowfro. 777 00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,800 It was in our Basel. 778 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:29,120 And what we did was we made generative clothes on demand for, you know, five days at a pop-up. 779 00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,920 So people would come in, they didn't need to have crypto, they can come in, they could 780 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:34,400 swipe a credit card. 781 00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:38,600 They would mint an NFT, which was a squiggle variant. 782 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:44,520 So it was the same exact algorithm that Snowfro used to generate the chromiswiggle. 783 00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:48,680 But instead of a squiggly line output, it's a straight line output with the 90cc logo 784 00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:49,760 above. 785 00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,640 As soon as that got minted onto the blockchain, we then printed that onto a T-shirt. 786 00:56:54,640 --> 00:57:00,120 We then linked that NFT that the person just minted to the physical shirt so that it travels 787 00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:01,360 with the shirt. 788 00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,840 And then we boxed it up and handed it to the customer within 10 minutes. 789 00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:10,520 And so to me, the technical feed of that was amazing. 790 00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:16,240 The fact that we were able to pull that off, there was about 41 hours over the course of 791 00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:20,600 five days that we were up and we were only down for 12 minutes. 792 00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:27,080 And so the fact that we were able to do that, there's a lot of operational intricacies that 793 00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:28,280 end up going into that. 794 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:34,800 But I think when I look into the future of the same way that we all want very personal 795 00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:40,400 lines, digital products to represent who we are, I think we, as the manufacturing process 796 00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:45,920 is catch up to the human imagination, we're going to start seeing a need and a desire 797 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:52,480 for personalization, mass personalization within the physical space as well. 798 00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:58,920 So Snowfro was on the course earlier in the fall. 799 00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,600 And that's one of his big ideas also, right? 800 00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:08,000 We will see mass personalization, mass customization in physical goods as well. 801 00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,920 And it's one of the things he hopes to be working on with Artblocks. 802 00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:24,240 So logically, all kind of luxury brands at least are going to want to do something like 803 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:25,240 what you're doing, right? 804 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:32,320 And it improves their ability to say, this is the real one and someone else goes and 805 00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,520 buys it on Canal Street. 806 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,000 It's not quite the same thing, right? 807 00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:38,000 Exactly. 808 00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:44,640 And I think one, you know, that from low hanging fruit is that certificate of authenticity. 809 00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:50,520 But then also to the point you just made is, you know, mass customization of, you know, 810 00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:55,160 how cool would it be if, you know, you walk into a Louis Vuitton store. 811 00:58:55,160 --> 00:59:00,000 You pick out your favorite purse and you get that personalized more so than just maybe 812 00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,160 having like your initials monogrammed on it, right? 813 00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:07,120 You can have like your favorite prints or your favorite artist or, you know, whatever 814 00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,640 have you kind of be printed onto it. 815 00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:13,120 And so you get that element of personalization. 816 00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:14,640 And I think that that's where the world is headed. 817 00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:19,920 I think just at this moment, again, we're just held back by the manufacturing process 818 00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:24,600 of how you can do something like this at scale because over the last, you know, hundreds 819 00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:29,720 of 150 years, you know, it's been the exact opposite where it's like, how do you get the 820 00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:34,240 lowest price product of making, you know, a hundred million of the same things for the 821 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:35,240 lowest cost? 822 00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:39,320 Now, I think we're going to be running into the problem of trying to figure out how do 823 00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:44,520 you make a hundred million unique individual things for the lowest cost? 824 00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:55,680 And is there a way, and I'm not saying today, but somehow that the authenticity would be 825 00:59:55,680 --> 01:00:00,720 visible in the physical world, obviously not going to go around scanning people's, I mean, 826 01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:05,120 be weird if I came and grabbed your tag and like, I had to scan your edit of seat ship, 827 01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:06,120 right? 828 01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:10,600 But like, is there a way where that does sort of happen in like AR or something? 829 01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,200 I mean, I could see that possibly happening with AR, right? 830 01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:20,840 So in a world where we're all wearing like Google or Apple glasses, or AR glasses, where 831 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:25,840 you know, it could say, you know, like verified real almost like, think of it maybe like a 832 01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,800 verified collection on OpenSea, right? 833 01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:34,000 And I don't know like the exact capabilities of what that tech would look like, but I could 834 01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,240 definitely see a world where that ends up happening. 835 01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:43,760 And you know, like, I think it will lower the amount of fakes out there, right? 836 01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:48,600 Because there's that like social and public shame of people, if people find out that, 837 01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:53,680 you know, you have a fake Rolex or whatever it is, I think it's going to be interesting 838 01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:56,160 to watch the dynamic play out in real time. 839 01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:59,480 But I do, I do foresee a world where that can happen. 840 01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:09,560 I mean, if there was some world where it's the same world where if you are demonstrating 841 01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,200 what's in your wallet, right? 842 01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:19,560 If you can, the same world where you can show that you own your punk in the physical world 843 01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:24,480 is the same world you can do this because all you need to do is show the NFT, right? 844 01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:27,280 We don't need to touch, we don't need to touch your shirt. 845 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:31,760 That could be kind of awkward, right? 846 01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:36,200 If you have the NFT, then you have the NFT for this in the same way that if you have 847 01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:38,560 a punk, you can show a punk. 848 01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:44,680 So if you have some type of augmented reality glasses, which are going to happen, right? 849 01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:57,280 And if people are somehow signing with their device, I guess their wallet, right? 850 01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:03,480 Their public addresses are wallet, then maybe you could do it that way, right? 851 01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:05,920 You could imagine happening about that. 852 01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:10,360 Yeah, I mean, I could definitely see that where you can showcase the collection that 853 01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,000 you want people to see, right? 854 01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:18,600 So if you go to a nightclub, maybe you probably showcase a different collection than if you 855 01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:22,200 were to go to get coffee at Starbucks, right? 856 01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:25,280 Yeah, really interesting. 857 01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:34,680 I mean, I can see how this could be appealing to obviously crypto native fashion companies 858 01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:40,400 like yours, but lifestyle or whatever the right word is, but how it could be interesting 859 01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:47,200 on the traditional providers who have a large problem with counterfeit, right? 860 01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:53,280 Yeah, I believe it was, I think, $80 billion last year and expected to grow. 861 01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:57,840 I think maybe double digits to share. 862 01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:03,680 What else are you seeing out there that you think is super interesting, challenging? 863 01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:10,760 What's the future of 9DCC? 864 01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:12,120 Where do we go next? 865 01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:16,880 You know, I think to me, the most compelling part of everything that we've done over the 866 01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:22,080 last six to seven months has been the gamification of IRL. 867 01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:29,200 And you don't want people coming up to you and randomly scanning your tag, but I think 868 01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:35,600 what we saw in our Basel was that people do enjoy that and people do like to connect, 869 01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:36,600 right? 870 01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:42,440 Because, and I noticed this really early on after the lockdowns ended, is that we were 871 01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:47,760 making all these connections online, but people want to connect in real life. 872 01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:53,120 And I can make an argument that probably the biggest utility of NFTs is connecting in real 873 01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:56,400 life as people make these friends in Discord. 874 01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,840 And then when they go to a conference, they want to meet up in real life and have a meet 875 01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:01,720 up for their communities. 876 01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:09,320 And so, and this was really born from the idea that I ran a POAP event in June of 2021, 877 01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:15,080 where I tweeted out, you know, show up to this place, and this is during BTC Miami. 878 01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:20,000 And I tweeted out, show up to this place and, you know, collect the POAP, the person wearing 879 01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:21,520 the G Money shirt. 880 01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:24,760 And about 80 people showed up over the course of three days. 881 01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:29,200 One of those days, there were two guys that met up that didn't have anything in common 882 01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:33,920 other than the fact that they both followed me and they both showed up to the same coffee 883 01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,080 shop at the same time to collect the POAP. 884 01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:43,320 They ended up starting a venture fund together and they ended up co-founding a few dows together. 885 01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:48,680 And I think about that a lot because these are two people that otherwise would not have 886 01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:52,320 met if it wasn't for me sending out that tweet. 887 01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:57,960 And as I think about, how can I then increase these interactions to happen at scale so that 888 01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:01,280 I don't need to be that center spoke for people to connect. 889 01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:05,920 But I can rather create this network where each individual person in that network could 890 01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:10,080 basically become their own node and create their network around them, which will grow 891 01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:11,760 the entire network. 892 01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:18,120 So what we ended up doing and for anybody that ever sees a 90cc shirt out in the wild, 893 01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:23,640 you can go up to that shirt and you can collect the POAP because each shirt distributes its 894 01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:25,040 own individual POAP. 895 01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:29,080 So it is proof that you met that physical shirt. 896 01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:37,360 And what we did with our Basel is we ran two contests concurrently where there was a leaderboard 897 01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:41,640 for the people, for the person that would collect the most POAPs from unique individual 898 01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:42,640 shirts. 899 01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:46,200 And there was also another leaderboard for the person that distributed the most POOPs. 900 01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,600 And this was run over the course of five days. 901 01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:53,200 We distributed close to 5,000 POAPs over the course of five days. 902 01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:57,880 And this was all people running around Miami making connections. 903 01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:03,160 I had a lot of people reach out to me saying how it was an amazing icebreaker, right? 904 01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:08,440 Because a lot of times, even if you see somebody wearing a shirt that you like, a lot of times 905 01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:12,320 the conversation is, hey, I like your shirt, thanks. 906 01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:14,280 And the conversation ends there. 907 01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:18,000 But I think as humans, we crave that connection, right? 908 01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:19,760 We want to connect with people. 909 01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:27,200 And so what collecting a POAP allows is a lot, it allows that icebreaker to happen in a very 910 01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:28,200 authentic way, right? 911 01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:31,760 Where it's like, oh, hey, like, you know, you see somebody wearing the shirt, you collect 912 01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:37,120 their POAP, maybe, you know, it takes, you know, five to 15 seconds to actually go through 913 01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:38,280 the process. 914 01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:41,520 And in that time, you start talking to the person and it's like, oh, where are you from? 915 01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:42,520 What do you do? 916 01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:43,520 What are you into? 917 01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:46,240 Maybe a new friendship forms, maybe a new business relationship forms. 918 01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:47,240 Who knows? 919 01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:48,600 The possibilities are endless. 920 01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:53,240 But I do think that like by being able to gamify these connections that are we seeing 921 01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:59,760 in Discord, in Twitter, like in a digital space and bringing that out into the real world, 922 01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:03,120 I think that that's where like the real secret sauce is. 923 01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:06,400 And that's what gets me the most excited about what we're doing. 924 01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:07,400 Okay. 925 01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:09,440 Very interesting. 926 01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:20,880 What are the things that we should have discussed about 9DCC or the challenges opportunity setup 927 01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:24,680 future that we haven't discussed yet, that we should cover? 928 01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:29,400 I think, you know, we, I think overall through the entire presentation, we've been discussing 929 01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:33,520 it, but I want to really lean into like the composability of it, right? 930 01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:38,480 Which is really like what makes crypto so powerful is composability, right? 931 01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:43,200 And everything that we've been talking about, and I think the hotel room example that you 932 01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:49,080 use is a great example of it is like when you can take, you know, non-fungible/ 933 01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:55,720 semi-fungible assets and make them as composable as possible, what, you know, how valuable does 934 01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:57,080 that become, right? 935 01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:01,400 And so I'll use the t-shirt says an example, but you can also technically use it against 936 01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:03,480 like hotel inventory, right? 937 01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:09,120 Of being able to then post that as collateral in an NFT lending platform and take out a 938 01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:10,120 loan against it. 939 01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:14,840 Like, I think I probably took out the first on-chain loan against a t-shirt about two 940 01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:17,280 months ago, where I posted as collateral. 941 01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:21,440 I had somebody that was willing to lend me money against it. 942 01:08:21,440 --> 01:08:28,920 And now people that own a 9DCC shirt can then post it as collateral and get a $125 loan 943 01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:32,520 almost instantaneously by posting as collateral. 944 01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:38,640 And I think that these value unlocks that start to happen in markets that are very immature 945 01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:41,240 that don't have access to this type of capital, right? 946 01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:45,000 Because what I'm describing is a margin loan against a stock. 947 01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,880 It is a mortgage against a piece of real estate. 948 01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:53,160 It's nothing that's very esoteric or complex in the traditional finance world, but you're 949 01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:58,000 going to open up these markets and give people access to this capital that otherwise might 950 01:08:58,000 --> 01:08:59,200 not have had it. 951 01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:03,080 And that all really comes from composability. 952 01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:06,560 Very interesting. 953 01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,800 Let's go see the other slides. 954 01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,640 There's some examples and I think one of them is your partner, so we can actually, I want 955 01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:15,360 to get your views on them. 956 01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:17,000 I think they're in some of the slides. 957 01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:24,640 So, Mattereum, this has been going on, they've been working on this for a while and it's 958 01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:30,740 not the case, but my understanding and we might next running of the course get the founder 959 01:09:30,740 --> 01:09:36,720 Vinay to talk to him about it. 960 01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,920 The general, I'm going to summarize it, it might be wrong. 961 01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:44,880 But like my general views they spend a lot of time thinking about the contractual aspects. 962 01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:52,720 I don't think they worry so much about the gamification, or there are mental levels, how 963 01:09:52,720 --> 01:10:02,640 make sure that the sales of these assets in ABCD jurisdictions are legally binding and 964 01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:09,520 have a legally binding contract that people can use. Do you have a different sense of 965 01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:15,280 how they think about it? I think that's the way they think about it. I spoke to Vinay 966 01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:22,000 I think almost two years ago at this point but from my understanding he was thinking about it 967 01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:30,320 at more of the contractual level and how you can maybe sell a piece of real estate on chain 968 01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:36,560 between a counterparty in let's say Europe and the United States and dealing with the laws 969 01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:40,960 and how that works. So I think he's thinking at a very high level in terms of that. 970 01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:46,240 Yeah we need to get him on in the spring and talk to him. He's very interesting. 971 01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:54,240 I follow him on Twitter he's very interesting so it'll be good to get his views. What's the next one 972 01:10:54,240 --> 01:11:00,560 VT? All right so 4k I think you should present the slide in 973 01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:08,320 Talisman 4k since you're an actual customer 4k. Yep I mean I love the product. I had 974 01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:16,320 I originally wanted to make create a centralized custodian back in I think it was December of 2020 975 01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:24,080 where I remember when Nifty Gateway did the the beeble drop and there was I think it was like 976 01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:28,480 an eight-week trading window where you can trade the digital asset and then there was like a six-week 977 01:11:28,480 --> 01:11:33,920 claim window where you can claim the physical the physical piece that came with the drop. 978 01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:38,960 And I remember reaching out to somebody on the customer support staff I'm like well 979 01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:45,040 you're gonna you're gonna crush the trading like one-step physical window is done because 980 01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:50,240 I know there's gonna be more value I think long-term in keeping the digital and the physical 981 01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:56,160 component combined. I think we saw a lot of people over the last like you know two years really 982 01:11:56,160 --> 01:12:01,200 disconnect that because people didn't necessarily care about the physical component but I do think 983 01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:06,160 long-term people are gonna want both of those together. So I really early on I was like there's 984 01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:12,400 going to be a need for this centralized custodian much the same way that free ports exist in that 985 01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:18,240 yeah I'm gonna I'm in a whole this physical asset someplace because I don't need to take possession 986 01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:25,040 of it but I do want to have the access to a 24/7 global marketplace and at the time 987 01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:30,800 like I spoke to a few lawyers and nobody had any idea what an NFT was and when I explained the 988 01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:38,240 contract it really was I feel they they didn't I think they didn't totally understand it and I 989 01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:42,880 spoke to a few people and it seemed like there would be enough legal risk that I didn't necessarily 990 01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:49,680 want to do it as a US citizen living in US jurisdiction but I said I will like if I find the 991 01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:55,520 founder that wants to do this this is like I think this would be a massive business I was introduced 992 01:12:55,520 --> 01:13:03,680 to to Richard maybe like maybe a year ago or yeah maybe a year ago a year and a half ago and I 993 01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:09,200 mean I loved it obviously because I had that idea organically myself as well and I saw that he was 994 01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:14,640 already doing it and so you know we spent a lot of time talking and what I think is really interesting 995 01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:20,800 and I had him on my podcast a few months ago was being able to bring like a lot of different 996 01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:25,920 um ask real-world assets on chain like he even said like the possibility of bringing like 997 01:13:26,480 --> 01:13:31,840 like the caretaking of an animal on chain and I think he has to figure out the logistics of that 998 01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:36,880 but I'm like ultimately the world where it's like you know like um those like you know take you 999 01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:42,320 know pay a dollar a day to like feed like a monkey or something like you could technically run 1000 01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:49,040 something like that off the 4k protocol which I think becomes like very interesting um and like 1001 01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:54,240 I don't know the legality of the complexities of that but at the very least right is like you can 1002 01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:59,360 take you know something like a Rolex watch something like I have some sneakers that are custody there 1003 01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:05,280 I have 90 cc shirts that are custody there but then also by building out on the protocol layer 1004 01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:11,360 then other people can create also their own storage on top of that right so it's like if I have an 1005 01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:19,680 empty warehouse here in my backyard I can then take custody and verify that let's say that Rolex 1006 01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:25,600 is real and that it's stored in a location in a safe location uh and be part of that 4k network 1007 01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:31,280 that ultimately starts originally with their protocol but then builds out globally and like 1008 01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:36,160 what does that mean for the implications is that network builds out so I I think that there's like 1009 01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:41,520 a lot of really cool stuff that that can be done with this right and what I'm I'm really interested 1010 01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:47,200 about on the uh on the composability layer is now being able to take that real world asset 1011 01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:52,640 and then use it as collateral for other things right and I think this is where 1012 01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:59,280 when you have that zero to one moment where I think it's going to be very difficult there's 1013 01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:05,040 going to be a harder time bringing real estate on chain then there will be bringing watches on 1014 01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:12,080 chain or sneakers on chain because financing mechanisms for those two industries that I just 1015 01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:19,520 said don't exist on a global scale yet, whereas you know getting a mortgage for real estate is like 1016 01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:25,040 it's a massively global business that already has its processes flow and place and it already has 1017 01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:29,760 you know its industry and its people with vested interests whereas if you're able to take something 1018 01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:36,240 from zero to one and provide capital and provide access to capital and financing that a market 1019 01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:40,880 might not already have I think you're going to see faster adoption than you will you know I 1020 01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:46,320 firmly believe real estate comes on chain I just think it will take much longer because there's 1021 01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:55,280 already a mature industry around it. Makes perfect sense what's the next let's go to the next slide 1022 01:15:55,280 --> 01:16:07,120 do you know about corn lord I do I'm I angel invested into it they're very similar to 4k right they do 1023 01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:14,480 physical custody of assets and issue you in nft they've teamed up with with brinks as their 1024 01:16:14,480 --> 01:16:21,600 vaulting partner so you know they've had a few drops I believe their first drops might have been 1025 01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:29,680 on polygon I'm not exactly sure I think they were on on an L2 to start but I'm not sure where they're 1026 01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:42,640 they're currently issuing their nft's okay and what do we have next and then. Americana I think 1027 01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:50,640 it's trying to be the open sea for physically backed nft's right is that are you are you very familiar 1028 01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:58,640 with them I'm not very familiar with them I know that they're chipping products and creating I think 1029 01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:03,600 a marketplace for those products I haven't I haven't had the opportunity to chat with their team 1030 01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:14,320 very closely just like you know in passing at you know at like a cocktail hour or something. 1031 01:17:16,480 --> 01:17:23,120 Okay, do we have anything else let's see do you want to take on the artifact sneakers I think I 1032 01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:27,840 know how they work but you brought you might you probably pay more attention to the details 1033 01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:34,000 yeah I mean listen artifact I think they've been trailblazers in the category right and you know 1034 01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:39,280 I think they they got acquired by Nike because of you know all the cool things that they were doing 1035 01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:45,680 I think that you know all the things that they've done have been like really pushing boundaries and 1036 01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:51,840 I you know I think most people know what they do and you know they've created these digital 1037 01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:57,360 components and then also for the most part usually have these forging windows where you can then 1038 01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:02,000 claim physical product at which point they fulfill that product and then send it out 1039 01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:07,840 and I believe, it's interesting to watch these different drop mechanics and you know, I know this 1040 01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:14,080 as well because I'm going through it with the stuff that I'm doing at 90cc whereas I you know I 1041 01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:19,760 don't know if we have found out like the best drop mechanics just yet so I think you're gonna see a 1042 01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:26,240 lot of playing around, with how drops work with how you know how do you fulfill physical product 1043 01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:31,120 right because especially when it comes to something like clothes or sneakers, where everyone wears a 1044 01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:39,280 different size, you can't necessarily pre-sell sizing but you know because then you fragment 1045 01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:43,920 the market a little too much right and it's like what you know what is that right balance between 1046 01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:48,960 liquidity and the right balance between getting the product out there and and time frames but 1047 01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:54,000 you know I think artifact has has done an amazing job for the physical digital space 1048 01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:58,720 over the last two years and you know they're they're always going to be a team to watch. 1049 01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:05,440 And you know for the audience I think most people know that they're now owned by Nike right and so 1050 01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:14,000 I view them not just as an interesting organization but my guess is this is like the 1051 01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:22,320 R&D lab for these ideas in Nike in general and the ones that are successful will probably see 1052 01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:30,000 rolled out at Nike scale which is just an absolutely gigantic scale right like so 1053 01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:37,280 yeah and I look at this and I think when you want to talk about you know mass adoption 1054 01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:42,880 and consumer adoption like you know when you have brands like Nike and Adidas coming into the space 1055 01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:48,720 like you know I mean it's almost inevitable that you know you at some point soon you will be getting 1056 01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:53,680 adoption because these are brands that drive culture right these are brands that you know 1057 01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:58,080 probably you know Nike's probably one of the coolest brands on the planet right and so 1058 01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:04,720 whatever it is that they do and to your point is I I would take a strong guess that artifact is 1059 01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:10,800 almost like their web 3 R&D team and when things work within artifact then they start scaling that 1060 01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:15,040 across their organization and that's when you're going to start seeing a lot of people start to 1061 01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:22,240 get onboarded into the space you had actually helped bring Adidas into the space right 1062 01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:28,880 yep I partnered with them board apes and punk's comic for their for their initial drop 1063 01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:37,120 and how did you and I'm curious for me I don't know procedural perspective you're 1064 01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:45,680 sitting there you want some NFTs you think you think big companies should do this but I assume 1065 01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:53,040 these big companies don't didn't then know really much about NFTs how did you make that happen 1066 01:20:54,000 --> 01:21:01,760 um so you know I got randomly DM'd by somebody on their team who told me you know he loved what 1067 01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:09,200 I was doing he worked at Adidas on their web 3 on their web 3 team and he wanted to chat now I had 1068 01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:13,920 no idea if he really worked at Adidas or not but I figured you know what's a 20 minute phone call 1069 01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:19,360 like you know what if he really does work at Adidas it turned out he did and you know we ended up 1070 01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:24,880 having these like amazing conversations because because my thesis and my thought process behind 1071 01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:31,200 you know working with any large organization is that I want them to onboard onto crypto rails 1072 01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:36,320 onto decentralized rails right because at some point right and this is almost like the world we 1073 01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:43,360 live in now is you know your your conglomerates that exist in the legacy world today will try to 1074 01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:48,080 you know do something that is let's say web 3 but not entirely web 3 you'll be like let's say within 1075 01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:54,320 their their wall garden of an ecosystem and they'll call it web 3 you'll be let's say a digital 1076 01:21:54,320 --> 01:21:59,520 collectible but there won't be true ownership there and so you know the more of these brands that we 1077 01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:05,120 can build on truly decentralized rails then the better it is for all of us as consumers right 1078 01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:10,560 like when you think about when you see all these movies about these dystopian futures of what that 1079 01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:16,640 world looks like usually it's where there's you know one one person or a small council of people 1080 01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:22,480 deciding and making decisions for all of humanity and people you know don't have any say in what they 1081 01:22:22,480 --> 01:22:29,360 can do with their assets right and the more digital our lives become then the more that these high 1082 01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:35,840 councils can control what it is and and what it is and what we do with with our assets and so that's 1083 01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:41,840 why for me like building on Ethereum building on you know EVM compatible chains is something that 1084 01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:47,680 I firmly believe in because there is you know asset ownership there where okay maybe if you 1085 01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:52,880 violate the terms of service you can't play in that world but the assets you own are still yours 1086 01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:59,120 right there's there's always that story that people say of you know how I think Vitalik was banned 1087 01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:03,520 from World of Warcraft and that was like part of his reasoning for creating Ethereum right where 1088 01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:10,880 he lost you know he found like a bug in the system was able to take advantage of it but then lost his 1089 01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:16,400 account and lost all of his work because of it when and and that's like well I should have ownership 1090 01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:22,640 over my property because I paid for it right like you know how valuable would it be to a gamer that 1091 01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:27,920 you know let's say spent a thousand dollars on Fortnite the size they don't want to play Fortnite anymore 1092 01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:32,160 right instead of just having a thousand dollars of sunk you know skin cost that they can never get 1093 01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:36,720 back if they can get some sort of return on that saying like okay somebody else wants to buy these 1094 01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:43,840 I don't want to own them and I think that you know the more that we can teach these brands to build 1095 01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:49,440 on these truly decentralized rails I think the better it will be for society because then that 1096 01:23:49,440 --> 01:23:55,280 leads to more adoption on those decentralized rails which leads to more ownership over your 1097 01:23:55,280 --> 01:24:04,080 personal property in the future I couldn't agree with you more this is I think where we are fully 1098 01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:11,120 aligned I think you and I focus on different things but the general objective is the same that the 1099 01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:17,120 more we can get people to use standardized public interoperable rails the better the world will be 1100 01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:28,000 in the long run okay let's shift gears and take some questions for the from the audience and I'll 1101 01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:40,880 go vp I'll go into the discord so that I can find the questions as they're being asked and give me a 1102 01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:48,240 second I will see what what the people want to know 1103 01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:59,920 all right privacy concerned walking around with a scalable NFC could lead to dioxing or even 1104 01:24:59,920 --> 01:25:06,000 tracking how do we protect privacy with NFC readable wearables risks of document tracking and 1105 01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:12,480 it's a good question well how do you think about this um so with regards to tracking we don't 1106 01:25:12,480 --> 01:25:20,480 track any data right the NFC chips are like not powered right so that so there's no like tracking 1107 01:25:20,480 --> 01:25:26,640 of personal data all you do is basically like you can scan you know where that shirt is at one 1108 01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:33,280 point in time right and you know this is something I've thought long about as well with you know and 1109 01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:39,760 I think we're probably going to be moving towards a world of zk right where you can uh at test that 1110 01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:44,720 somebody was somewhere without that person necessarily having to sew things on blockchain I just don't 1111 01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:50,880 think that the tech is there just yet but I do think long term you know people will be able to 1112 01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:56,400 turn on or turn off like you know privacy concerns and certain stuff like yeah I don't want you know 1113 01:25:56,400 --> 01:26:03,680 let's say um people that collect my po-op to kind of know where I am at a given point in time if let's 1114 01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:09,040 say I'm at a party at a specific event right and this already exists with let's say when people scan 1115 01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:16,080 po-ops uh per se is like you scan in uh you collect the po-op for that event um you have to be there 1116 01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:21,680 to collect that po-op I think over time we'll probably see a move towards whether it's zk or 1117 01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:28,880 maybe not everything is stored on chain or you have the opportunity to kind of um send that po-op 1118 01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:33,920 like after the fact so you don't necessarily know who's there in real time um I think that these 1119 01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:38,400 are all concerns I've definitely thought about it I just I feel like at the at this point in time 1120 01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:43,760 we're like in the proof of concept phase that we can then iterate on and tackle those privacy 1121 01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:49,600 concerns but I I definitely you know as somebody you know as pretty much everybody on the planet 1122 01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:54,720 is probably tracked through their phone uh realizing how important that data is and making sure that 1123 01:26:55,280 --> 01:27:00,160 you have the trust you know you have our trust that you know we're not collecting you know real 1124 01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:05,200 time data on where you are uh in order to you know geotarget or whatever have you 1125 01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:13,040 right and I don't know if the question was meant that you attract them could someone I don't know 1126 01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:22,160 how the tech works could someone use a remote reader to scan someone's shirt at a distance 1127 01:27:23,440 --> 01:27:29,920 no I I don't like because because of the like the the like the communication field for that is 1128 01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:35,920 solo like you have to you have to put your phone like very close uh to the actual chip in order 1129 01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:40,720 to get because again there's no power in the chip so it's kind of powered by the device that 1130 01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:47,840 scans it so the device has to be close to kind of like utilize it sorry that's the the near field 1131 01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:55,360 and NFC right like so I if I were wearing the shirt and someone wanted to scan my NFC chip 1132 01:27:55,360 --> 01:28:01,280 I'd notice because they'd be right next to me yeah they they'd be rubbing their phone up against your 1133 01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:10,160 shirt could be awkward it could be um okay here's the question how many people put their shirts 1134 01:28:10,160 --> 01:28:15,040 in storage I guess your initial drop how many people said give me this t-shirt I'm wearing it 1135 01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:23,280 down in Miami and how many have kept it in the vault for future results yep so um from the initial 1136 01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:29,520 drop I think we're at a little bit above 40% of people that took delivery of the shirt to wear it 1137 01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:39,600 and from the second drop I think we're at around 50% um you know we we did about 50% um live in Miami 1138 01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:44,720 of the mint because we really wanted to showcase the you know the actual generative manufacturing 1139 01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:50,400 process live on the ground and then uh you know I think the interesting thing about the second drop 1140 01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:56,400 is it's probably more of a collectible as well it's like it's an affordable chromisquiggle uh 1141 01:28:56,400 --> 01:29:02,080 interestingly enough there was a father son uh his son had always wanted a chromisquiggle but 1142 01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:07,120 they were priced out of it um because they found out about swiggles too late he took his son out of 1143 01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:13,440 school for a day and they flew down together had this experience where he minted a squiggle a shirt 1144 01:29:13,440 --> 01:29:19,760 as a squiggle variant and now that like his his son's uh version of a squiggle so I think that like 1145 01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:24,880 wow the interesting thing is going to be uh you know seeing that like collectibility play into 1146 01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:29,680 things as well because there you know this one this is a rift right so this one is rarer than than a 1147 01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:38,400 floor next question are there companies out there working to build platforms specifically 1148 01:29:38,400 --> 01:29:43,840 the designs to enable this concept of moving from databases to markets across industries 1149 01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:49,360 I'm aware of teams doing this individually fly fishing restaurants links down and golf 1150 01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:54,800 but is anyone building out the tooling to do it across industries I have answers but let me hear 1151 01:29:54,800 --> 01:30:01,360 your answer but I'll comment on this I don't know anybody that's trying to build a platform like 1152 01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:07,120 this at scale I think even as you were presenting it I feel like it becomes very industry specific 1153 01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:12,480 because I think some of the hardest stuff is to get the buy-in right like I think you have to be 1154 01:30:12,480 --> 01:30:20,800 in the travel industry and very high up to be able to convince like you know uh booking.com 1155 01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:27,760 Expedia and all these companies to come into this same protocol so I think it becomes very 1156 01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:33,680 industry specific at least for the foreseeable future but I but maybe I'm wrong I'd love to hear 1157 01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:45,520 what you think 6529 yeah um I guess my super abstract view of this is that if the outcome 1158 01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:54,800 um is anyway NFTs NFTs are the platform right like the whole point generally 1159 01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:04,720 network type protocols whether it's TCP IP or SMTP or Bitcoin right FTS works specifically 1160 01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:10,160 because you don't have to get everyone to agree to do something together right like the social 1161 01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:14,720 coordination costs are really high because you're just oh I want to do my platforms I was all 1162 01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:18,960 know I have a better idea I'll do it this way than someone else who I have I have access to the 1163 01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:25,920 market in France and I'm going to do it this other way and so and I think a lot of these are going 1164 01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:33,040 to need industry specific tooling right the solution for how it works on restaurants is going to be 1165 01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:39,120 different than golf courses which is also going to be different than apartments which will also 1166 01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:47,280 be different than fashion and so for me I don't know I don't know what a generic tooling would look 1167 01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:53,920 like other than the generic tooling being NFTs and so like if people do whatever they're going to do 1168 01:31:53,920 --> 01:32:04,800 on their individual workflow but in the end um people can uh represent their claims when NFT 1169 01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:13,760 then you get to pick up as the issuer all of the infrastructure that is being built generically 1170 01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:19,520 for NFTs right like you don't have to build a marketplace there's going to be many marketplaces 1171 01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:25,760 right you don't have to build a lending platform you don't have to build the gallery to display 1172 01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:32,160 them right because people are going to be building these things for NFTs as a whole and if we get 1173 01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:41,360 like a couple of years in the future another maybe order of magnitude worth of adoption in 1174 01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:46,480 people and applications I think it's over right like then the incentives you're not going to have 1175 01:32:46,480 --> 01:32:54,080 to like tell companies things about like decentralization it will just be obvious that if they issue 1176 01:32:54,080 --> 01:33:01,760 their claim as an NFT it is better for them than trying to build an end-to-end infrastructure by 1177 01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:07,440 themselves because they'll never keep up with literally the whole internet building infrastructure 1178 01:33:07,440 --> 01:33:17,040 for brc721s and 1155s or whatever the the variations will be on other blockchains right so I think 1179 01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:27,520 that's where I come out of this one the next question is for me um I will laugh about this one 1180 01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:33,440 can we use NFTs as proof of knowledge passing courses college courses etc really yes there 1181 01:33:33,440 --> 01:33:36,400 if you pass the exam with other those courses you're going to get an NFT absolutely 1182 01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:46,320 you are in specifically the, um, the service that we'll use NFT as a proof of knowledge 1183 01:33:47,440 --> 01:33:54,000 okay i think i have a follow up on that for you um when when you issue those NFTs will they be 1184 01:33:54,000 --> 01:34:01,600 sold out so this is a great question and I have discussed this in great detail with the unit team 1185 01:34:02,960 --> 01:34:14,080 and that it all start with a conclusion they will not be sold out and I'll tell you why because 1186 01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:20,720 that was their first question maybe sold out if I have an educational credential that I'm 1187 01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:30,480 going to keep for years decades right well the odds that my wallet is not going to be different 1188 01:34:30,480 --> 01:34:39,760 20 years from now is literally zero right I've gone through three wallets or ready since I started 1189 01:34:40,400 --> 01:34:46,240 with NFTs and looking maybe me as well I have I have my nuisance wallet my safe vault maybe 1190 01:34:46,240 --> 01:34:52,000 won't change but the odds that the average person in this class is not going to change their wallet 1191 01:34:53,200 --> 01:34:59,920 zero zero like people might have started with a hot wall then maybe they might go to a treasure 1192 01:34:59,920 --> 01:35:04,720 maybe they'll go to some social recovery wall maybe they'll later go to a multi-sick wallet I mean 1193 01:35:05,920 --> 01:35:09,760 and this I think all these things are going to happen in the next 18 months not in the next like 1194 01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:18,720 18 years right so a model where we say oh it's so bound because a model where people are going to 1195 01:35:18,720 --> 01:35:24,080 get stuck needing to move them and then what that's going to be is someone is going to have to come 1196 01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:32,400 to UNIC and say move it to this new wallet and I need to somehow explain to you that I'm the same 1197 01:35:32,400 --> 01:35:50,160 person and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. I believe it is operationally impossible right and for this to exist over decades right so I start with I don't think the soulbound model generally works I'm not 1198 01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:52,360 actually quite bearish on the Soulbound model. 1199 01:35:52,360 --> 01:35:54,840 I think it needs to be solved with other ways. 1200 01:35:54,840 --> 01:35:57,720 And it's like, oh, do the other ways are problems? 1201 01:35:57,720 --> 01:35:58,520 Yes. 1202 01:35:58,520 --> 01:36:00,240 It's just the Soulbound one. 1203 01:36:01,340 --> 01:36:04,320 Effectively, the only way you solve the Soulbound 1204 01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:06,360 is to just make it centralized. 1205 01:36:06,360 --> 01:36:08,840 But if you make it centralized, 1206 01:36:08,840 --> 01:36:11,160 then Munich might as well just keep it in their database 1207 01:36:11,160 --> 01:36:14,840 of people who have completed the course, right? 1208 01:36:14,840 --> 01:36:16,160 Then what's the difference? 1209 01:36:16,160 --> 01:36:17,720 You can always call up Munich and say, 1210 01:36:17,720 --> 01:36:19,280 hey, did I complete this course, right? 1211 01:36:19,280 --> 01:36:21,000 So that's back in one. 1212 01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:24,960 And then it's interesting to see what Munich 1213 01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:27,960 and other academic institutions did in the past. 1214 01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:30,960 So I don't know if you ever discussed this on this course, 1215 01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:33,520 one of their, they had, I think, 1216 01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:36,000 where the first issue to plume was on the blockchain 1217 01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:38,840 as on the Bitcoin blockchain. 1218 01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:40,920 Pretty long before and if these. 1219 01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:43,720 And their solutions were interesting 1220 01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:48,320 because it is, it was a hash into the Bitcoin blockchain 1221 01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:49,920 and you got a PDF and those are merciful 1222 01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:52,800 for all these things that we're using now 1223 01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:55,000 for allow us to what have you. 1224 01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:58,440 And you could check if the hash of your PDF 1225 01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:03,880 was in that transaction, right? 1226 01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:04,720 So there it was interesting 1227 01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:06,320 because it wasn't even in your wallet at all, right? 1228 01:37:06,320 --> 01:37:07,760 You just have a PDF. 1229 01:37:07,760 --> 01:37:11,000 And that PDF you could check if it was, 1230 01:37:11,000 --> 01:37:12,360 it's like the end of chip, right? 1231 01:37:12,360 --> 01:37:15,400 Like you can say I have this off chain good, 1232 01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:17,160 but I can tell you if it exists 1233 01:37:17,160 --> 01:37:18,880 on chain transaction. 1234 01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:23,480 So that's one model, it's portable with the user, right? 1235 01:37:23,480 --> 01:37:25,680 So that's one interesting model. 1236 01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:27,640 Now on NFTs, 1237 01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:34,280 and I think what's gonna happen on this course, 1238 01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:39,240 though George and I haven't finalized it, 1239 01:37:39,240 --> 01:37:40,920 well, there's a couple of things you can do. 1240 01:37:40,920 --> 01:37:44,120 First of all, we're gonna let people 1241 01:37:44,120 --> 01:37:48,280 if they choose put their name on it, right? 1242 01:37:48,280 --> 01:37:49,680 If they put their name on it, 1243 01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:55,880 they have to pick one person that it is, right? 1244 01:37:56,520 --> 01:37:58,160 So if you want to say, 1245 01:37:58,160 --> 01:38:01,280 if I say I'm Mike Smith, I completed this course, 1246 01:38:02,440 --> 01:38:04,560 selling my chip, I was like, 1247 01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:06,680 oh, what if they sell their credentials, right? 1248 01:38:06,680 --> 01:38:09,200 Well, if my credentials are Mike Smith, 1249 01:38:09,200 --> 01:38:13,960 and I sell them to Sally, 1250 01:38:13,960 --> 01:38:16,040 what good is it gonna do Sally? 1251 01:38:16,040 --> 01:38:19,320 Right, like I'd have to find another Mike Smith. 1252 01:38:19,320 --> 01:38:20,840 And I was like, well, I don't wanna do that, 1253 01:38:20,840 --> 01:38:23,840 I wanna put my ETH address. 1254 01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:26,560 Okay, that's fine. 1255 01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:28,400 You can put 6529.ETH. 1256 01:38:29,440 --> 01:38:33,200 But then it's really only relevant to whoever 1257 01:38:33,200 --> 01:38:38,200 has built up reputation as 6529.ETH, right? 1258 01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:41,760 And it's not generically sellable, right? 1259 01:38:41,760 --> 01:38:43,520 I mean, why is that gonna be useful? 1260 01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:44,960 What'll be useful to you? 1261 01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:46,720 If you said, like, hey, look, 1262 01:38:46,720 --> 01:38:49,520 I completed the course, here's my certificate. 1263 01:38:49,520 --> 01:38:51,240 And on the certificate on the NFT, 1264 01:38:51,240 --> 01:38:53,120 it says 6529.ETH. 1265 01:38:53,120 --> 01:38:56,600 I was like, wait, that's not you, right? 1266 01:38:56,600 --> 01:38:57,440 Is it all well? 1267 01:38:58,480 --> 01:38:59,480 What if, 1268 01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:03,120 or what if someone takes the course 1269 01:39:03,120 --> 01:39:04,440 in someone else's name? 1270 01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:07,160 Well, sure, that's a risk, 1271 01:39:07,160 --> 01:39:09,280 but that's not solved by sold-bound token. 1272 01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:11,640 That's solved by KYC, right? 1273 01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:13,960 And so then there's an interesting question. 1274 01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:16,640 Do you want to, you know, obviously for, 1275 01:39:18,280 --> 01:39:19,960 I understand if you complete, 1276 01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:22,880 go on from this course and do the degree program, 1277 01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:24,720 you will effectively get KYC 1278 01:39:24,720 --> 01:39:26,480 because the University want transcripts 1279 01:39:26,480 --> 01:39:28,120 and all these other things and like, 1280 01:39:28,120 --> 01:39:30,120 you're, I don't know, driver's license passport, 1281 01:39:30,120 --> 01:39:30,960 I don't know what they'll need, 1282 01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:33,280 but like, you don't get KYC, right? 1283 01:39:33,280 --> 01:39:34,960 Now for a course like this, 1284 01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:38,440 where someone is going to show their credential 1285 01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:41,520 in their wallet, right? 1286 01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:45,880 To me, the right answer, 1287 01:39:45,880 --> 01:39:47,200 they're in the right balance 1288 01:39:47,200 --> 01:39:50,720 between decentralization and practicality 1289 01:39:51,640 --> 01:39:53,720 is that it's not sold-bound, 1290 01:39:53,720 --> 01:39:58,720 that people can either put a physical name on it, 1291 01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:02,960 or they can put an enist name on it, 1292 01:40:02,960 --> 01:40:05,640 and then they can move it from place to place, 1293 01:40:05,640 --> 01:40:06,760 and you know, their physical name 1294 01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:08,640 is going to stay with them the rest of your life, 1295 01:40:08,640 --> 01:40:12,520 presumably, and your enist can actually transport 1296 01:40:12,520 --> 01:40:15,680 across wallets, right? 1297 01:40:15,680 --> 01:40:20,600 I might change, I'm using some model treasure 1298 01:40:20,600 --> 01:40:23,760 at 6.529.eth, right? 1299 01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:25,160 Do I think in 20 years, 1300 01:40:25,160 --> 01:40:26,920 the same treasure is going to be working now, 1301 01:40:26,920 --> 01:40:28,080 I'm pretty sure it won't be, right? 1302 01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:30,640 I'm pretty sure we're using something else, 1303 01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:33,960 but I can certainly 6.529.eth, right? 1304 01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:37,600 And if I had a certificate that was issued and signed 1305 01:40:37,600 --> 01:40:42,960 by 6.529.eth, okay, what differences it make 1306 01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:45,240 if it's in the difference of theorematics? 1307 01:40:45,240 --> 01:40:47,120 So, that's how we're thinking about it. 1308 01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:50,920 I think we'll be making some decisions soon, 1309 01:40:50,920 --> 01:40:54,080 and we'll probably like, tweet about it 1310 01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:56,440 and what the trade-offs are, 1311 01:40:56,440 --> 01:41:01,520 but I just think you have to assume that the soulbound token 1312 01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:05,000 concept is effectively for this purpose, 1313 01:41:05,000 --> 01:41:09,320 unworkable, or indistinguishable with being centralized, 1314 01:41:09,320 --> 01:41:12,480 and then see how you work out those solutions. 1315 01:41:12,480 --> 01:41:14,720 Yeah, and I tend to agree with that. 1316 01:41:14,720 --> 01:41:16,400 I've been thinking a lot about it, right? 1317 01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:18,760 Where it's like, it's almost like, 1318 01:41:18,760 --> 01:41:20,840 effectively you're creating like an account, right? 1319 01:41:20,840 --> 01:41:23,160 And then each wallet is almost like a sub account 1320 01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:24,760 associated with that account. 1321 01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:27,360 And to your point is like, you don't know, 1322 01:41:27,360 --> 01:41:29,240 you know, you don't know if you're going to use your wallet 1323 01:41:29,240 --> 01:41:31,120 for the rest of your life, probably not, right? 1324 01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:33,000 Because of the nature of technology. 1325 01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:36,480 So you need to have that ability to self-transfer things. 1326 01:41:36,480 --> 01:41:37,960 So that makes sense to me. 1327 01:41:37,960 --> 01:41:40,440 I think that that's probably, and I think delegate cash 1328 01:41:40,440 --> 01:41:43,040 is probably one of those examples, right? 1329 01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:46,320 Of like almost creating like a user account, 1330 01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:48,480 and then you have all these sub accounts, 1331 01:41:48,480 --> 01:41:51,080 and you can then sexualize risk, right? 1332 01:41:51,080 --> 01:41:54,200 From a different perspective, but I do think that like, 1333 01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:55,840 these rules apply to that as well. 1334 01:41:56,840 --> 01:41:59,520 Yeah, delegate cash fixes another problem, 1335 01:41:59,520 --> 01:42:02,160 which is an all the delegation solutions, 1336 01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:05,240 which is not minting from your cold wallet, right? 1337 01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:07,880 But I think for this problem of which, 1338 01:42:07,880 --> 01:42:09,480 the other people, the reason people always ask 1339 01:42:09,480 --> 01:42:11,000 it like is it so modern on is, 1340 01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:12,840 but what if someone else gets the certifications 1341 01:42:12,840 --> 01:42:15,080 of the person at the course, right? 1342 01:42:15,080 --> 01:42:17,440 But I think the answer to that is, 1343 01:42:17,440 --> 01:42:19,800 you can put a name on it, but your name can also 1344 01:42:19,800 --> 01:42:22,200 be a real name or it can be an ENS. 1345 01:42:22,200 --> 01:42:27,200 And the ENS abstracts away, 1346 01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:31,840 not just a hot wallet, it can abstract away your name wall. 1347 01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:33,560 No, right? 1348 01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:35,520 Now, let's say someone's self, 1349 01:42:35,520 --> 01:42:39,080 let's say I sell my whole digital identity, okay, fine, 1350 01:42:39,080 --> 01:42:42,200 but like, honestly, I'm gonna sell my whole digital identity. 1351 01:42:42,200 --> 01:42:45,440 I'm not gonna do it because of a certificate 1352 01:42:45,440 --> 01:42:46,640 from a MOOC course, right? 1353 01:42:46,640 --> 01:42:51,640 I mean, like there's bigger issues at play there than this, right? 1354 01:42:53,120 --> 01:42:55,880 And it's putting the card, 1355 01:42:55,880 --> 01:42:58,520 if tomorrow you turn into six times a night, 1356 01:42:58,520 --> 01:43:00,320 I think it's okay, fine, but like, 1357 01:43:00,320 --> 01:43:03,040 I don't think the real issue is that you'll also 1358 01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:04,200 get my MOOC certificate. 1359 01:43:07,120 --> 01:43:08,320 Yeah, makes total sense. 1360 01:43:11,680 --> 01:43:14,760 Okay, I think this was a great session. 1361 01:43:14,760 --> 01:43:17,440 I think we've ran basically, 1362 01:43:17,440 --> 01:43:18,880 we try to keep them an hour and a half, 1363 01:43:18,880 --> 01:43:21,320 maximum two, we're right on time. 1364 01:43:21,320 --> 01:43:23,680 I want to thank you so much for coming and joining. 1365 01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:26,200 We very much appreciate you taking the time. 1366 01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:29,320 It is great to learn from practitioners in the field. 1367 01:43:30,760 --> 01:43:34,120 We now have, this is for the members, 1368 01:43:34,120 --> 01:43:38,120 we now have our minting ton of T-word for faster, 1369 01:43:38,120 --> 01:43:40,320 so this will mint us in an FTE, I think soon, 1370 01:43:40,320 --> 01:43:41,720 maybe by next week we'll have the site 1371 01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:46,440 where students in the course can mint NFT 1372 01:43:46,440 --> 01:43:48,680 of any of these sessions and keep them seeing them, 1373 01:43:48,680 --> 01:43:50,640 or just review them online 1374 01:43:50,640 --> 01:43:53,880 or we need to get them into the campus as well. 1375 01:43:53,880 --> 01:43:57,760 And it will be there as a resource going forward. 1376 01:43:57,760 --> 01:44:00,680 So it's not just the core certificate 1377 01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:02,040 that's going to be NFT, 1378 01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:04,520 each piece of course material is also NFT, 1379 01:44:04,520 --> 01:44:06,240 including this session. 1380 01:44:06,240 --> 01:44:12,160 And so the people can benefit from it over time. 1381 01:44:12,160 --> 01:44:13,840 All right, well, thank you. 1382 01:44:13,840 --> 01:44:42,480 And I think we can wrap this up.